Intego Mac Security Podcast

The Apple Watch gets a reprieve, for a short time anyway. Japan is following the EU’s lead by considering a law forcing Apple to allow sideloading on iPhones. Auto manufacturers are already announcing next generation CarPlay features. And we discuss reports of a rumored sooner-than-later release of Apple’s new Vision Pro.

• Urgent: New Chrome Zero-Day Vulnerability Exploited in the Wild – Update ASAP
• Japan Preparing EU-Style Law to Force Apple to Allow App Sideloading and More
• New Go-Based JaskaGO Malware Targeting Windows and macOS Systems
• Apple Won’t Be Able to Repair Out-of-Warranty Apple Watches Due to Import Ban
• Federal court blocks Apple Watch ban pending appeal
• First Vehicles With Next-Generation Apple CarPlay Announced Ahead of 2024 Launch
• Google will update Maps to prevent authorities from accessing location history data
• Apple reportedly plans Vision Pro launch by February

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Transcript of Intego Mac Podcast episode 324

Voice Over 00:00
This is the Intego Mac Podcast—the voice of Mac security—for Thursday December 28 2023. This week’s Intego Mac Podcast security headlines include: the Apple Watch gets a reprieve, for a short time anyway. Japan is following the EU’s lead by considering a law forcing Apple to allow sideloading on iPhones. Auto manufacturers are already announcing next generation CarPlay features. And we discuss reports of a rumored sooner-than-later release of Apple’s new Vision Pro. Now here are the hosts of the Intego Mac Podcast, veteran Mac journalist, Kirk McElhearn, and Intego’s. Chief Security Analyst, Josh Long.

Kirk McElhearn 00:49
Good morning, Josh, how are you today?

Josh Long 00:51
I’m doing well. How are you, Kirk?

Kirk McElhearn 00:53
I’m doing just fine. A very Merry Christmas to you. I hope you have enjoyed your holiday.

Josh Long 00:56
Absolutely. Hope you had a great holiday as well. And we’ve got New Year’s coming up right around the corner.

Chrome patches eighth new zero-day vulnerability this year

Kirk McElhearn 01:03
But before we get there, we have a new Chrome zero-day vulnerability exploited in the wild. It’s like deja-vu all over again, right?

Josh Long 01:12
Yeah, these things come up pretty often. In fact, this year, this was number eight. So we had them like pretty close to monthly in terms of how frequently these things came out. So an actively exploited vulnerability in the Chrome browser, and therefore all chromium based browsers. So if you’re using Chrome or edge or brave, or opera, or any other chromium based browser, you need to make sure that you’ve got the latest version, because there was a pretty serious vulnerability that just got patched. This vulnerability is described as a heap based buffer overflow bug in the web RTC framework that could be exploited to result in program crashes or arbitrary code execution. Now, that second one, you may not worry too much about crashes. But where these kinds of things can become problematic is sometimes it does a little more than just crashing your browser or your application that you’re using. arbitrary code execution basically means that a bad guy, if they’re exploiting this vulnerability in just such a way, they could potentially run malicious code on your computer. And that’s, of course, a very bad thing.

Kirk McElhearn 02:23
“Arbitrary code execution” sounds like I don’t know someone who pressed the wrong button on a PowerPoint presentation or something. But it’s really much more serious than that. Basically, what it means is that someone can run an application, right? It’s not just code, it’s an entire application on your computer. And that’s the thing we worry about most, isn’t it?

Josh Long 02:43
Yeah, exactly. So whatever that arbitrary code might be, you don’t know. I mean, it could be potentially anything. So that’s, that’s the tricky thing. And the reason why these kinds of vulnerabilities need to be patched as quickly as possible. Everybody’s using Chrome just about, you’re either using on a Mac, you’re either using Chrome or you’re using Safari, more than likely Firefox is market share is down in the like three ish percent. So most people are really using Safari or some chromium based browser on the Mac,

Kirk McElhearn 03:14
I’m a Safari user, I just don’t see the need to worry about other browsers.

Josh Long 03:19
And of course, if you’re using iOS or iPad OS, if you’ve got an iPhone or iPad, you’re basically using Safari, because even if you’ve downloaded another browser from the app store, you’re technically still using WebKit, which is the underpinnings for Safari, because at least at this point, Apple doesn’t allow you to have any kind of third party browser engine. So the guts, the underneath layer, is really just Safari. Now that may change at some point, because there is something that’s coming out next year where in the EU, Apple is going to have to either allow side loading or allow third party app stores in order to comply with a new EU law that I think goes into effect in March. And so because of that, there, it may get to the point where maybe we will have third party browsers that will have their own engines because there’ll be able to circumvent the App Store in that case,

Kirk McElhearn 04:18
Well, not only the EU, Japan apparently is coming up with a war to do the same thing. And this is for both Apple and Google App Store monopolies to allow third party app stores on both of these platforms. So that could have an effect on the browser. Imagine if you’ve got Europe and Japan, those are both very large markets. You can’t go much further without the US following suit.

Josh Long 04:40
It’s becoming increasingly likely that when Apple rolls out whatever they’re going to have to do in order to comply with the EU law and the potential proposed Japanese law. At some point, you know, you’re going to have just about every country who’s either you know, basically saying that In order to be compliant with the law here, you also need to do that here, Apple. And at some point Apple is just going to have to make this something that’s available worldwide. And maybe they’ll just do that right off the bat. I don’t know, we’ll have to see.

Kirk McElhearn 05:13
Well, they can’t say it’s not possible if they’ve already done it in Europe. And they can’t say, well, it’s not possible to do it in the US because we use dollars and not euros or something like that.

Josh Long 05:21
They’re not going to have very many excuses that are going to be believable to anybody.

Kirk McElhearn 05:27
So we have new Go- based malware that targets Windows and Macs, and I’ve been playing Go for decades, and I don’t see how you get malware out of Go.

Josh Long 05:36
No, it’s not that go it’s not the game and this is Go the programming language

Kirk McElhearn 05:41
Go is a programming language that’s not very good for SEO.

Josh Long 05:45
Search engine optimization. That’s a good point. Because there’s a lot of things named go it’s literally two letters. Well, in any case, a lot more malware lately over the past year or so has been based on this golang, Go programming language. And so it’s not too surprising to see this stealer malware named Jaska GO. That is available cross platform, it can infect both Windows and Mac OS computers. Interestingly, 18 t actually did a write up of this. I forget because I guess I have seen write ups that 18 T has done before on malware, but I forget that at&t Even has like a cybersecurity division. But apparently they do some malware research as well. And so they have a write up about this latest malware.

Kirk McElhearn 06:32
Okay, it looks like the usual cryptocurrency malware that’s looking for cryptocurrency wallets.

Josh Long 06:38
It’s Stealer malware. Yeah. Which again, we’ve seen an awful lot of this year, malware likes to target cryptocurrency wallets, they like to steal your cookies, like steal or malware is very in this year. And I imagine that it’s probably going to continue to be very popular into 2024. Because this is something that can make you money. If that’s your goal. It’s something that in the case of stealing cookies, it can allow you to hack lots of people’s accounts all at once. So if that’s your goal is infecting, and spreading propaganda or whatever it might be through hacked Facebook accounts. There’s lots of things that you can do with steel or malware. And so this is something that we’re not likely to see diminish anytime soon.

Court stays order barring Apple from selling the Apple Watch

Kirk McElhearn 07:22
But if you’re using Intego software, you’re protected, right? (Of course.) Okay. We’re recording this on Wednesday, the 27th. And just minutes before we started recording, we got the news that a federal court blocked the Apple watch band pending an appeal. Now the Apple Watch Series Nine and ultra have been banned from sales in the US since December 21. I think the actual ban came into effect on the 25th. But Apple decided to stop selling it on the 21st could be for reasons of logistics, I don’t know, you were able to buy them. And we talked about this last week from third parties at Amazon or BestBuy or wherever we were going to tell you about a story that Apple wasn’t able to repair out of warranty Apple Watches due to this import ban, that if you had a new watch under warranty, or if you had Apple Care, then you could get repairs. And because of the ban, you couldn’t know when Apple repairs a watch, they generally just give you a different watch, right? They don’t try to repair the device. Even if it’s a screen replacement. I think they just give you a different watch. So for some reason, we were discussing this before, I was thinking that there’s some contractual thing to do with warranties and Apple Care. That couldn’t be banned. But Josh, you had a different opinion?

Josh Long 08:36
Well, yeah, it’s not really clear if that’s the case that maybe Apple has a loophole and is still allowed to distribute these watches as long as it’s a warranty replacement. But the other possibility might just be that maybe Apple is trying to conserve parts, maybe that was kind of the the idea behind it not so much that they had any special legal differentiation between devices that were covered under a warranty versus not. It might just be that they were trying to avoid running out of arts for those people who had devices that were under warranty. But in any case, I guess this is moot now because this latest breaking news is that apparently a federal court has blocked the Apple watch band pending appeal. And so I guess Apple has until what was January 12. To make this change. I guess it’s a software change. Potentially they’re assuming that could allow Apple to continue to sell the Apple Watches after that.

Kirk McElhearn 09:36
We’ll link to an article on CNNCNN which is the first one that we saw on Twitter. And it says that the appeals courts temporary block on the ITC, that’s the International Trade Commission on the ITCs order will allow the US customs department to consider Apple’s redesign of the offending Apple Watch models of fix it is expected to take place by January 12. Now I don’t think that by January While they will be able to do anything to the hardware of the watch, there are four different colors of the aluminum watch, no sorry, there are five different cosy aluminum watch, there are three colors and stainless steel, there are two sizes for each one plus, there’s the Apple Watch Ultra. That’s an awful lot of different devices to retool to create a new blood oxygen sensor system, my guess is that they can do something in software. Because remember, a patent like this applies both the hardware and software, both to the detection and the interpretation of the detection. So maybe they can do something in software to get around the patent. Well, in this case, maybe by January 12, Apple has said that they can release an update, which would allow them to no longer be in violation of the patent. We were talking before the show, it just doesn’t make sense that Apple hasn’t settled. The only possibility is that the patent holder Massimo just said, we’re not settling, because they don’t need the money. I mean, they’re not a huge company. They’re a billion dollar company, but they are in a niche market of medical devices. And maybe they just don’t care about the money. Maybe they just want to play David to Apple’s Goliath.

Josh Long 11:05
It’s kind of funny that you say that, you know, they’re a billion dollar company, not a huge company. Well, compared to Apple, they’re not a huge company.

Kirk McElhearn 11:11
Let’s put it that was a $3 trillion company says a huge difference.

Josh Long 11:15
Right? Right. So we’ll see whether Apple is able to come out with a software fix for this. But at least for now, you can actually still buy your Series 9 or Apple Watch Ultra 2.

Next-generation of CarPlay announced by Apple’s luxury car partners.

Kirk McElhearn 11:27
Well, the Apple Store on one in the US has not updated yet. I’m sure that they are scurrying to update it. Maybe if the store goes down, that means they’re going to re issue the devices. When you go to the Apple Watch Series Nine page or Apple Watch Ultra two it says currently unavailable, maybe by the end of the day us time they will be available again. Okay, we want to do an update on something we mentioned two or three weeks ago that Apple had announced June 2022, that there was going to be a next generation CarPlay experiences they said, and that they would be announcements by the end of 2023. Well, there were some announcements on December 20th. Last week, I think just after we recorded our podcast, so a number of car manufacturers have announced support for the new car play. And these are all the expensive cars, the ones that you and I don’t drive. So it’s not really important is it?

Josh Long 12:18
Well, you’re probably right about that I’m not likely to be buying an Aston Martin or a Porsche anytime soon. But those are the two brands that are going to have this new next gen CarPlay interface in 2024 when this launches, so you know what, it’s kind of a Christmas miracle because we did after all, get the announcement about which car manufacturers were going to be first to support the new CarPlay experience. And just like we saw a year and a half ago, these are full dash, you know, multi display, big elaborate things that include things like the odometer and all sorts of other things like this, you can have the navigation taking place right in front of you. So you can look through your steering wheel to see the navigation rather than having to look off to the side to see your Apple Maps and you know, your passenger in the passenger seat can control the music potentially, or other things with a display in front of them. So there’s a lot of really interesting things that can be done with this. And so Apple is showing off what this experience is going to look like in the first vehicles that will support it.

Kirk McElhearn 13:30
So you know, I live in the UK and I live next to a farm and my landlord the farmer has some holiday cottages so little houses they rent for, you know people on vacation holiday means vacation. A few weeks ago, there was an Aston Martin DBX5 sitting out in front of one of the houses that’s the James Bond car. And I remember when I was young I had a little model Corgi James Bond car and that was really interesting to see. I will never be able to drive an Aston Martin or a Bentley or a Porsche or any of those. So when they bring it to Peugeot, which I currently have or Toyota’s, I’ll be able to try the new CarPlay experience. We’re gonna take a break when we come back, we’re going to talk about some more news.

Voice Over 14:11
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Google plans long rollout of update to its Maps feature.

Kirk McElhearn 15:28
So we have a story that Google is updating their maps feature, which is a Maps app and plus also Maps on the web, to prevent authorities from accessing location, history data. Now, this is kind of interesting. They are doing this to protect users location from law enforcement, the verge article says, and they’re not actually changing the app, I think they’re just changing the way data is stored. So they’re saying that maps location will be stored locally on the devices instead of in the cloud, which means that something called geofence warrants, which will I want enforcement to gather, tech companies, data on mobile phones that are passed to a certain area during specific time period can no longer be used to get data about individual users. It’s kind of surprising from Google who wants to snarf up all the data about everyone and monetize it. And they’re trying to be the good guys, because they’re particularly talking about Black Lives Matter protest in Seattle, where people were discovered using Maps data, but Google wants that data. So it’s kind of a conflict with Google here. This isn’t Google, we know.

Josh Long 16:33
Well and you know what Google might be trying to be more competitive with Apple, because Apple has been saying for years iPhone, that’s privacy, right? It looks good for Google to come out and say, well, we hear you and we want to be more privacy conscious as well. At the same time, we know we’re making a lot of money off of your data, but you know what, it will throw you a bone. So we’re going to make it look like we care about your privacy. Honestly, this is a good thing, probably from Google’s perspective, too. Because Google doesn’t want to necessarily hand over everybody’s data to law enforcement agencies just at a request, right? So if they can put this barrier between themselves and that data, technically, they still have access to the data in the sense that it lives on your device. And so you know, your Google app, your copy of Google Maps is still going to have all that data. And so they can still use that on device to maybe target you with ads or things like that. And so they still benefit with having that data on your device. It’s just taking away that opportunity for them to turn over that data that had been stored on their servers to law enforcement or whoever might request it.

Kirk McElhearn 17:49
I wonder how the Chinese government feels about this. Like they’ve required Apple to have iCloud servers in China, right? Obviously, there’s a lot of data on iPhones, it’s stored on the devices, it’s encrypted, but they still want to have access. So it’s not clear. is Google doing this because of a specific country? The article we have here is talking about FDI. Warrants, or are they just doing it in general, because they want to not be evil. Remember, when their slogan was, don’t be evil 25 years ago, whenever it was, the one thing that’s interesting is, the change will take place gradually over the next year on both the Android and iOS versions of the Google Maps app. It’s going to take a year for everyone to get this.

Josh Long 18:29
That doesn’t make any sense, right? Because it’s like, okay, if they roll out a new version of the app that stores the data locally, why is it going to take a year to roll that out? It’s almost as though what they’re really trying to say is we’re not going to say that we’re getting rid of it until a year from now when by then I think we’ll get rid of all of it.

Kirk McElhearn 18:50
Okay, a couple of weeks ago, we talked about a scam email that I got saying that I had been using someone’s images illegally and that Well, I will issue a DMCA takedown unless you give me $500 in Bitcoin that was obviously fake. And I got another one last week that was kind of interesting. It was an iCloud free storage notice. Your iCloud storage might be full. When exceeding your storage subscription limit your photos, documents, contacts and device data will no longer be backed up. Also, your photos and videos will no longer be uploaded to cloud photos. Cloud Drive and apps for cloud will not be updated on your device cloud, not iCloud. You can continue backing up your photos apostrophe s with extra cloud storage click and receive 50 GB storage for free. Get this deal kind regards subscription team. The reason we’re bringing this up is a lot of people got new iPhones maybe you’re upgrading from an old phone for Christmas. Or maybe you’ve got a new Mac for Christmas and you’re gonna get this and think well I don’t have a lot of iCloud storage who free iCloud stores. This is apple folks. There’s nothing for free. I mean, okay, you get the operating system for free. You get a whole bunch of apps, but all this stuff This is the coaching for Apple. This is where they get 99 cents a month or 299. For extra iCloud storage, there is no free iCloud except for that measly five gigabytes that they give you when you get a device, which isn’t even enough to upload your Christmas videos.

Josh Long 20:16
And you’ve been saying this for years this is this is where Apple is really making so much of their money now is on subscriptions, right? It’s not just the hardware sales, they’re also making a ton of money on subscriptions. That’s why Apple is trying to get everybody to buy into top tier iCloud plans. And the apple one subscriptions that include you know, news plus and Apple TV plus and all the other things in Apple arcade. You know, Apple really, really wants to get as many people as possible paying for these bundles that include everything because then Apple gets to make a ton more money off of you and on a monthly basis which is great for Apple.

Kirk McElhearn 20:54
I think the first time I wrote about this was 15 years ago on Mac world saying that iCloud storage, which was five gigabytes then iCloud storage should be per device. If you’ve got one iPhone, get five gigabytes, if you’ve got an iPhone, an iPad and a Mac, you should have 15 or 50. It’s just it’s cheap. It’s apple nickel and diming people it’s really sad that Apple still does this there. I said it. Yeah,

Josh Long 21:19
I agree with you. 100%. Five gigs doesn’t make any sense. And the fact that Apple is still giving five gigs of storage when guess what we can record 4k videos on our iPhones these days, like come on, you can’t do anything with five gigabytes anymore.

Kirk McElhearn 21:36
That’s why I said you can’t even store your Christmas videos. If you get a new iPhone and you Oh, which records in 4k. Let’s do all this and 4k. And then you lose. Anyway. Apple’s got something new coming out. It’s the funny looking goggles with the googly eyes on them. It’s called the vision pro report say it’s going to launch by February. Now if you look at Apple’s usual launch schedule, we know the iPhone every year is September, we know that the Mac is generally around that time, maybe twice a year, sometimes in June, sometimes in March. I think what they want to do is have a watch just for the vision Pro. They don’t want to mix this up with, I don’t know new iPhone cases, or an upgraded Mac mini or new iPads. They want to have a one hour extravaganza from the Apple spaceship with dancing girls and the whole thing. We’ll see what happens. I mean, we’ve discussed offline my feeling about this device that is not for everyone. In fact, it’s for almost no one at $3,500 We’ll see what happens.

Josh Long 22:35
Yeah, this is a really interesting time for Apple, right? Because they haven’t really come out with any fascinating new and original products in a long time.

Kirk McElhearn 22:46
Well, since the iPad to be fair.

Josh Long 22:49
Well, yeah, I mean, like the most recent one that you could almost say was like a big new product for Apple was the Apple Watch. But I mean, you know, it’s it’s a wearable wearables had kind of already been a thing. But I think that’s the only one in the Tim Cook era, right? It was just the Apple Watch. That’s the only one that comes to mind anyway.

Kirk McElhearn 23:06
Well, maybe the AirPods, it’s not like they’re unique. There had been earbuds for a long time, particularly since the iPod. But the whole thing of having wireless Bluetooth, you know, quality sound noise cancellation, but it’s an iteration. It’s not a new product. It’s true. The iPad was a new product, the Apple Watch was a semi new product. And the vision Pro is I want to say don’t take this wrong listeners. But I want apple to fail, because they haven’t failed with anything big for a long time. And a company this size needs to learn some humility. When we talked about Johnny, Ive leaving Apple a year ago, year and a half ago, there was a story that I read where he wouldn’t drive in one of the cars that the car service had sent him because he didn’t like the license plate number is something really ridiculous. This is the kind of thing that apple you know, the people designing this stuff. There’s wonderful Apple engineers at the lower level, but the ones who are wealthy and pushing this as a toy for the rich don’t seem to realize that this is not something that anyone can really use. Like we were talking earlier. Would you have a family sit around and watch a movie with everyone with their vision pros at $3,500 each. You have a big TV. Everyone can sit around and they can talk to each other instead of being isolated with these goggles on. I just don’t see the use case. It just it’s you remember that commercial 9084 won’t be like 1984 Well, this makes me think of 1984.

Josh Long 24:34
Oh, wow. That’s that’s cutting deep there. Yeah, you know, you make some fair points. And I do think the price tag is probably the thing that’s going to be the biggest deterrent to people buying these things. By the way, the February launch date. There’s multiple sources and pretty reliable sources who are saying this mark Herman Kirk always calls him Apple’s designated Leakey, Mark Gurmann. And also Ming Chico is the other are someone who has a pretty good track record for these things, and they are both saying February is when Apple’s gonna launch this, they’ve had these devices in beta testers hands for a while now and have been coming out with new vision OS updates on a pretty regular basis. So February does seem like that’s when we’re gonna get the new goggles, the division Pro. By the way, it’s also interesting to see what Apple’s competitors are doing in the space, you know, obviously, with meta we’ve got and they’ve, they’ve had some variation of the quest or Oculus line, they’ve had variations of that for some time, they came out with a new one pretty recently. And the price tag is like a 10th of the cost of the vision Pro. And so it doesn’t really matter that it’s not quite as good as the vision Pro, because it’s actually affordable for a lot more people. The other thing though, that Mehta is doing is they’ve partnered with Ray Ban now, and they have these new AI sunglasses that look like regular sunglasses, but they happen to have a camera in them. And they actually do a pretty good job considering that it’s a tiny little camera of recording video. And it’s interactable, you can talk to it and have it do things, they’re going to be continuing to upgrade the software as well. And that’s at a much better price point. And it looks so much better on your face than having giant goggles. And so maybe that’s the direction that these AI enhanced goggles are, are more likely to be successful.

Kirk McElhearn 26:27
And so that means when I see someone wearing Ray Bans outdoors, I have to assume that they’re filming me now like Google Glass.

Josh Long 26:33
You can see if you look closely, you can see that little circular camera. It’s not as ugly as Google Glass was back in the day. But I think we’re finally at a point in society. It’s like you were talking about before with, you know, Apple got a little ahead of themselves with the Newton, it just wasn’t the right time to launch that product. Maybe VisionPRO, it’s not quite the right time, maybe they should have waited a generation or two or worked out some of the details like how heavy the thing is, and not having to have the battery included. So you got to have this wire going down to your battery. It feels like it’s maybe a little early to launch the product. But you know, we’ll see maybe it will be a surprise success. But just that price tag, that’s the real thing that’s going to hold people back.

Kirk McElhearn 27:19
Well, it’s not just that it’s that when we saw the presentation video for the vision Pro, it looked like an episode of Black Mirror. It looked like a dystopian thing where remember the guys in the kitchen while his daughter’s having a birthday party. Like your daughter isn’t your eight year old daughter’s got a birthday party and you got these goggles on your face. It’s a sad image of society like that. You mentioned before the show about 3d TV and everyone all the TV makers thought 3d was the next big thing. And I bought a 3d TV once because I couldn’t buy a non 3d TV. I don’t even know where the glasses are. I never used it. Who wants to watch 3d TV who wants to put glasses on especially if they already wear glasses right? Now, don’t forget the vision Pro. If you wear glasses, you need to buy special lenses that are only made by one company. And I don’t know how much they cost. That’s maybe another couple $100. It’s just, it’s like, yes, the vision Pro is better than the Oculus, just like an Aston Martin is better than a Toyota. But not many people really care about getting the Aston Martin.

Josh Long 28:19
Exactly right. And the reason I brought up the 3d TVs is because you know, those are just passive glasses, right? They’re not they didn’t have technology in them that’s, you know, needs to be battery powered. Or they didn’t need battery. Exactly. They were just classes that you could put on. And it was hard enough to find a family that was willing to buy enough pairs of glasses to all sit there and watch a 3d movie together, let alone a $3,500 Goggles set that you got to put on for every person that just it just doesn’t seem like at least for that particular use case. It doesn’t make sense. Hey, you know, if you fly on international flights a lot, you’ve got time to watch movies, and maybe it’s those people who will it’ll make a lot more sense to get at Vision Pro.

Kirk McElhearn 29:07
Yes. When I get my G five private jet, I’ll get a vision Pro and I’ll watch movies that way. All right, that’s enough for this week. Until next year, Josh, stay secure.

Josh Long 29:16
Oh, that’s right. It is next year. Stay secure.

Voice Over 29:20
Thanks for listening to the Intego Mac Podcast—the voice of Mac security—with your hosts, Kirk McElhearn and Josh Long. To get every weekly episode, be sure to follow us on Apple podcasts, or subscribe in your favorite podcast app. And, if you can, leave a rating, a like or review. Links to topics and information mentioned in the podcast can be found in the show notes for the episode at podcast.intego.com. The Intego website is also where to find details on the full line of Intego security and utility software: intego.com.

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